You see, an agenda is a sticky thing indeed. We question peoples intentions, and I won't say that we haven't had good reason, but it has started to get out of hand as of late. It's becoming harder and harder to accept anything at face value anymore, and that is a sad thing indeed. The reasons that having an agenda is detrimental is that if anyone has one, then it's theirs and you can be pretty sure that any personal agenda deviates in some way from God's agenda. How can we operate under the leading of the Lord when we continue to insist on leading ourselves? This my friends is a sure sign of one thing: Rebellion.
Much of our questioning each other boils down to trust. It has become increasingly difficult for us to trust each other as fully as we once did because we have become a people that are not as trustworthy as we have been in the past. The reason we wonder about each other's intentions is that there have been some who have given us ample reason to question and called them out on their words and actions.
I'm not the first to notice this or even comment on this condition, however I believe that I am among the first to suggest this particular solution for it though. I've heard some say that we need to start trusting each other again, and especially begin to trust and rely on our ministry again in the way that we once did. I disagree with this as the way to regain what we've lost. Instead, it is my opinion that we must become worthy of that trust and do whatever it takes to regain that trust. Trust and respect are earned, not given, and a broken trust takes longer to rebuild than it did to establish initially. Even if it is only a perceived infraction that causes a breakdown it trust, once a trust has been lost it can't simply be recovered with a directive to trust again.
Before we can become trustworthy again though, we must give up our own agendas and leave them firmly behind us, buried in a forgotten past. Instead of operating this way, we must become willing to be used by God. I'm reminded of the chorus that we sing at church, though it's been a while since I've heard it.
Jesus use me, Lord please don't refuse me,
Surely there's a work that I can do.
And even though it's humble, Lord help my will to crumble,
Though the cost be great, I'll work for you.
In order for us to be used, we must recognize what our place really is. Brothers and Sisters, we are merely here to be used for the work of the Lord in any way that He sees fit. Not all of us are pastors or apostles, but all of us have gifts and all of us can be useful. Some of us might sit quietly most of the time, waiting a time when He will have a role for us to fill, but if we are ready and willing to be used, when our time comes, He will use us.
I've written recently about what Jesus would have us do, but in this case I think it's just as appropriate to ask what Jesus would do in this situation. Paul tells us to have the same mindset as Jesus (Phil 2:5). Let's take a look at just how Jesus thought because there is one record of Jesus dealing with an issue similar to the one that we are dealing with (Heb 4:15). In the garden of Gethsemane, in prayer Jesus asked God to take this cup away from Him. He did not want to suffer the way that He knew He would, and yet, in the same sentence, without pause He added, "nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done" (Luke 22:42). Paul says that He took upon Him the form of a servant and that He humbled himself and became obedient (Phil 2:7, 8).
Can we not learn from this example? Christ Himself became humble below His true station and became obedient though His obedience conflicted with His desires as a man. If He could do this when He was everything, how can I not when I am nothing? Let us lay aside our agendas, our own will, and instead, in everything that we do, endeavor to be used by God, agents of His will.
Even though it's humble, Lord help my will to crumble, though the cost be great, I'll work for You. Let that be our anthem as we stride forward into a new realization of working within the order that God has laid out for us.
I haven't heard of anybody that wants a split. I have heard of people that are willing to split because of their convictions. How do you stop a freight train that's going downhill?
ReplyDeleteI'm not the first to bring this up but it is interesting none the less. Our progressive breakdown of dress standards throughout the last sixty years.
At one time it was taught that women should not wear the color red because it was flashy and a sensual color, at one time open toed shoes were not acceptable because it was to visually stimulating, at one time high heels were frowned upon because the made you look like a prostitute, at one time if a woman wore a dress that was form fitting they were considered loose because they were showing off to much of their body, at one time wearing make up was what Jezebel would do, not someone who was trying to live separate from the world. Then piercing's came into the picture, and dying your hair. Which is a form of vanity and some say is sin. I don't know if there is a certain date or situation that you can point to and pinpoint exactly when each of these standards were compromised, but the fact remains they were.
Do each of these situations where the standard was lowered boil down to one person deciding to go against what they were taught or asked to do? Did one persons action force the entire body of Christ to compromise. So now pants are Ok outside of church, next it will be ok in church but only midweek,after that Sunday's are ok, after that shorts, after that sandals and short sleeves, after that sunglasses, then bathing suits, then what? No clothes at all? That sounds absurd, but if you could go back 50 years and show someone a picture of the standards today they would gasp.
I remember a while back I overheard a few of the youth in our church talking at the campground about how beautiful some of the girls from another Body church were. There were many girls at the campground that year but the ones they pointed out happened to be the ones that looked the most like the world. Super tight dresses, very short almost mini skirts, those dresses showed every curve on their bodies, high heels, make up, hair dyed, ear rings the works. I remember thinking how in the world can those girls pastor or parents let them come to a body meeting looking like that, don't they have a vision of living separate from the world. It didn't matter what I thought about it, they had captured the attention of so many of our youth. Not just our youth, it seemed like they were the most popular girls at the meeting. Instead of concentrating on listening to the service and looking for fellowship with godly, modest girls their minds were taken captive by what the world considers beauty. Unfortunately the next meeting some of those girls were not in church anymore, they had been taken captive by the world and it pulled them out of the body. The thing is, even though the first set of girls were not there, a new batch of girls, even more than the first time, were in attendance who had been influenced by the attention the other girls received previously. They weren't all wearing ear rings but the dresses were all tight, make up and such. And at some point there was a numbers shift. The influence of the ones who were influenced had won over. It used to be you had to look hard to find the young women that looked like the world but now you have to look hard to find the ones that don't.
I'm not saying that all the young women in our churches are worldly, I'm saying some may fall into the category of being influenced by the world, and some may be influenced by those in the body who have been influenced by the world. When that happens the weak fall easily and only the strong in Christ stay. What's immoral becomes moral. Has the Body of Christ fallen into the same pattern as the rest of the world? Less than 30 years ago homosexuality was not something to cheer about. But now if you speak out against it your a monster. The numbers have shifted. I am not comparing homosexuality to standards. I'm just using that as an example to show that things have changed in the world. Someone once told me that the church is twenty years behind the world, but it is following right along. Ex. Music,Dress,Entertainment,Worship,etc Is there a time coming when homosexuality and other sexual immoralities will be tolerated?
ReplyDeleteObviously the best case scenario is that every christian would have a strong Godly conviction in their heart, and every member has such a close personal relationship with Christ that nothing can influence them. But we know that's not the case. There are weak among us who need rules and Godly influences. They need people to hold up a standard. Am I right?
Are we helping the weak minded the best we can? Have we let down our guard to much? If that is the case how do you fix a ship that has water coming in it faster than you can bail it out? What's the next compromise?
This is from a previous blog post of mine
ReplyDelete"I feel the Lord calling us to recalibrate our focus on the essentials of the gospel. Jesus is sending his church into the whole world and He doesn’t want any nonessential to distract from the message of the gospel, or hinder its reception. His kingdom is too big for just one nation or culture to contain. Each nation/culture will have certain things that will vary in the implementation of the gospel but the core principles will always be the same and are to never be violated. There are things that are essential to the gospel and then there are things that are preferences, things that are good but not vital for salvation. This is where I believe the Lord wants us to take another look at. What is the essentials of the gospel?
I believe He wants us to set our focus on the principles, the true essentials of the Bible. If we calibrate our focus on the character of God, i.e. the principles of Christ, God will help us with the application of those truths in our lives. The principles never change, they are constant, but the application of those truths will vary from situation to situation. Application is simply a by-product of a principle. Let us not focus on the by-product but on the life-changing truths themselves.
Christ intended for these life-changing truths to go into all the world and transform men into the image of God. The implementation of these truths will not always be the same. In order for the application to be relevant to each generation/society , it will often times vary. For example, at one time in America if a woman wore a red dress she was considered a prostitute, in Germany in was a green dress. A similar statement today is wearing a green hat in China. But those things no longer have any cultural relevance. We must be careful not to hold too tight to an application, i.e. raise it to a commandment status, for three reasons. 1. we could lose sight of the real principle behind it. 2. we will reduce the gospel to a set of rules and commands. 3. we will find ourselves “adding to the word of God” which Jesus warns us about Prov 30:5,6 Rev 22:18.
The real power and witness of the gospel lies in the principles found there in. These are what transform men’s lives. These are what really witness to the world of God’s ways. These are what reprove men of their sins, condemning them of their unrighteous ways. This is to present the gospel in its purest form. These will allow us to know God and enter a deeper fellowship with Him."
I believe at the heart of your concerns lies the issue of what is the best way to turn someone's heart to God. If a person only does things out of peer pressure or simply following a rule (standard) where's the heart change. Those that will be modest will be modest, those that will push the limit will push the limit. Preaching Christ, His desires for the church, his character and nature is what we are to strive for. To make someone's mind up for them on what they should and shouldn't do circumvents their growth in the Lord. (Now please keep in mind I'm not talking about clear Biblical commands). Rom 12:1,2 says we are to offer a reasonable sacrifice. That is each one should come to understand and judge why they do what they do, not perform some unreasonable (no thinking involved) service.
ReplyDeleteWe believe that Christ is coming back for a bride. These individuals will rule and reign with Him for a thousand yrs. Another symbol used more often for this group is 24 Elders. They will be judges with Christ. Well how can some judge with Christ during that time if they haven't learned how to judge here now? The job of the ministry is to help equip the saints with the ability to judge, it is not to judge for them. A person's growth will be stunted if they can never come to the place where they can discern between good and evil. Paul said in Heb 5:14 that the mark of mature children of God are those who through reason of us have had their senses exercised to discern between good and evil. And isn't that what God wants? Fully matured, grown children of God. But it will never happen if men abdicate their responsibility and place it on another
Bro. Disciples Journey,
ReplyDeleteFirst let me thank you and all other responders for being open enough to continue this dialog with me, I believe it will help all of us if we can communicate our positions clearly and reason with each other. I have opened an anonymous blog page for just that purpose. So if you are anyone else would like to pose a comment or question on that page feel free to do so.
I want to avoid responding with four or five paragraphs in order to come to a clear understanding of your beliefs, and pinpoint a certain area for discussion
If you wouldn't mind please read I Cor 11:16-18
Consider the Amplified and NIV version as well
Paul said we have no such custom,neither the churches of God.
What do you feel he meant by that statement? Who was the we? Who were the churches of God? What would it take to fall into the category of being contentious?
Anyone who chooses to answer I welcome the dialog
@Someone, I'm sorry, but I seem to be missing how your comments to this post relate in any way to this post. Please enlighten us all if you would.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is my opinion that you are reaching the point where your anonymity is becoming a detriment to you. I have been criticized (http://paulbdyal.blogspot.com/2009/10/root-of-problem-is.html) because I initially posted my views under a pseudonym. The reasons I did this was because me and my father share the same name, and I was trying to find a way to avoid confusion. I came up with a solution and have rectified the situation. Even if you're not willing to identify yourself yet, I still think it would be appropriate for you to make a statement as to why you are protecting your identity. To do otherwise weakens your position in my humble opinion.
Bro. Dillon,
ReplyDeleteLet me first apologize, my previous comments were meant to be placed in the comment section of your Emergency Post article, but in haste I entered them under this post. Sorry about that.
I also want to thank you and tell you that I value your opinion.
I have a few reasons why I choose to remain anonymous at this time. One I already mentioned in the comments section of your article titled Emergency Post
On July 08, 2010 4:25 PM I said,
As far as my identity,I would like you to know that I am someone who cares enough about you to try and help you. Unfortunately we live in a time where peoples intentions are twisted and pressed into molds of warped thinking. Because of that fact, it is very easy to be categorized and marked by people. Like it or not everything you and others blog about or speak about has marked them in some way. Some marked as disgruntled, some marked as gossip driven, some as concerned, some as working out of order.
For example in a comment by Bro. Clifford. He without knowing my name,position,age, or by what authority I speak has already marked me as a coward.
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Another reason I choose to remain anonymous is because I feel there are others in the Body who may want to voice their opinions but from fear of being marked or categorized will not. By staying anonymous I hope to compel them to offer their voice and I want them to know they are not alone in keeping their identity silent.
I will also refer you to Bro. Paul Farmers comment in the Emergency Post comment section on July 09, 2010 12:38 AM
Bro. Paul wrote:
I am not entering this discussion for any reason other than to point out that anonymity is not always a bad thing. Peer pressure and fear of consequences both can drive people undercover just like it did the early church. After many years of working with various human resource departments I have learned to value anonymous surveys. You find out things that people are uncomfortable to tell you to your face. I do not consider it cowardice to remain anonymous as long as you are not using it as a guerrilla tactic to cause harm to others. As a manager I feel comfortable and compelled to use my name and identify myself when dealing with controversy but I do not begrudge someone to remain nameless, if that is the only way they feel comfortable sharing their thoughts. Dan Dillon has the prerogative to limit comment on his blot to identified responders ONLY, but he has chosen to make it available to ALL, whether they are known or unknown. He could have deleted the comment but chose instead to answer the question, as it seems to be very real concern to several people. I have received some of the best suggestions for progress and functionality from anonymous people who noticed a process weakness that the company completely overlooked. So I lend my support to the conscience of each person as they post.
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As WE endeavor (make every effort) to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace Eph 4:3 let me add
The truth is the truth whether it comes from a five year old, eighty year old, or a donkey. I am seeking truth and I fall somewhere in those categories
If I am guilty of any offense than please let me know and I will try my best to change or repent.
P.S. I opened a separate blog site because I didn't want you to feel your site was being hijacked. That way discussion could continue on topic or new topics could be brought out. But if your OK with this format than I will keep responding on this site as well.
I have recently proof read a book that has since changed mylife profoundly. It wasn't that its language was exceedingly complex or the style of its composition exceedingly elligant but none the less the understanding I received was simply profound. The author pronounces plainly that he feels he has received this understanding from what he calls, "the universal source of knowledge". All I understand is that I cannot get the validity of its profound truth out of my mind. The book was titled, THE TRUTH "The Illumination of Conscience" it is by a first tiime published author Jeff Simoneaux. of New Orleans, Louisiana. He talks about this universal connection we all have to everyone else and everything else and how this connection made of pure energy is our actually real self and that the body we incorporate in the world we sense is actually only a disquise for this other world in which we actually live, a world we manifest along with everything and everyone else, a world that our very Creator is readily available to us, it is His world. I strongly recommend to anyone seeming to be missing out on what life is about and why we are here and why we are the way we are to read this book. I understand his website to be www.thetruthbooksite.com Give yourself a gift and go there.
ReplyDelete