I normally take more time than I am today when I write, so this post may be just a little sub-par. If so, I apologize now.
I'd like to begin by stating that I do not advocate less commitment. If you are a Christian, be as committed as you can to Christ. I do however believe that He will take up the slack. Also, I do not advocate abandoning standards. I think that a standard is vital to our Christian walk. I simply state that it cannot be dictated externally, but should be a fruit of the process of maturation through Christ. Merely subscribing to a checklist of dos and don'ts can never be enough, all that does is fix the outside leaving the inside unchecked (Luke 11:39).
I am amazed that somehow I managed to jump to the forefront of "this effort". Five posts (this is my sixth) on a blog not too many people even know exists and I have become a chief of the liberalization movement. I have this to say about that, "Um, OK?"
Do I believe in perfection whether it concerns perfect church order or not? Absolutely. Do I believe it is an intrinsic quality? No. I believe in a proxy perfection, and yes I understand that not everyone agrees with me on this, or even quite understands what I am saying when I use the word proxy (which isn't even in the Bible), but it is a good word. I am stating here that I, me, the person writing this blog, have a mediator between me and God, and that is Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5) an advocate (1 John 2:1) or if you will be so kind, a proxy. Jesus covered my sin by his blood, and I became a partaker in His death (Rom 6:3). I was dead, but now I am alive THROUGH Jesus Christ (Rom 6:11). Should I sin because I have all of this? No, of course not (Rom 6:15). Don't you know that I can become addicted to sinning (Rom 6:16)? I'm saying the things that I'm saying because even though Christians are covered by Christ's sinlessness, I'm still human and I can fail but even when I do I still have hope through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:23). I believe in a Christ-centeredness.
Maybe I'm wrong to think that Christ's blood can even cover a sin that I haven't yet committed. Maybe it's not powerful enough to do this and somehow I need to make up for this on my own? No, no, no. The blood covered all my sins and when grace came into my life the day I first believed, Christ became my atonement now and forevermore (1 John 2:2). That never changes.
I've been accused of being a man who is not serving Jesus Christ by Bro. Dyal through his use of Rom 16:17-18. If you REALLY believe this, don't listen to a single word I have said or will say. If it's my intention to divide God's people up, then ignore me. Stop reading now and walk away. Strange though isn't it how Bro. Dyal seems to know exactly what my intentions are? Moreover since his blog doesn't directly quote me or reference the post I wrote in any way other than stating my userID, you are only left with his interpretation of what I said, therefore he is capable of portraying my intentions as whatever he wants or needs them to be to say what he is saying. Oh well, at least he said I can write fairly well, so I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.
I'd like to quote from his blog though if I can. "If they cannot answer yes to both of these questions they do not have the vision of this body." (emphasis added) [1]. I'll state right here, right now, I don't have a vision of this body. Whoa, did I just step into a trap? Hope not. What I will say is that I have a vision of Christ for this body. I simply refuse to put the cart before the horse, or in this case the body before the Head. I'm interested in what Christ is doing with our group, not just what our group is doing. A vision is about what you are looking at, and I've turned my eyes upon Jesus, not upon a group of men.
Oh, and by the way, if anyone feels like quoting any of the preceding paragraph, quote it all, or reference it and urge people to read it in its entirety so that they understand what I'm saying. Don't use a partial quotation to put words in my mouth, or rather take them out. That's fair isn't it?
I've already answered Bro. Dyal's question B (see above) and now I will tackle question A. In all honesty, I'm guessing that Bro. Dyal meant to write Holy Ghost filled Christians and not Holy Ghost Christians, so I am going to assume that he meant that. "Do you believe that the ultimate goal of Holy Ghost filled Christians in The Body Of Christ is to completely mature into the divine image of Christ having completely divested themselves of the sin nature?"
I don't believe that people can completely divest themselves of their sin nature (Eph 2:8-9). Assuming that you could however, what need would you have of Christ anymore? Would there be a time in your life, even just a second before you died, that you could live in a fashion that you would no longer need that hope that is within you, just a fraction of a second even where you didn't need Christ?
There's more to question A than just that though, and the best way I can answer this is by asking the following question. How do you know you are completely mature?
Bro. Dyal says "My revelation has not changed from what was delivered to me almost forty years ago, and I will not follow lesser gift, and no gift vain talkers into perdition." [1] I say, my revelation has changed as I've grown and matured. I've learned more than I knew twenty years ago (I can't say forty; I'm not old enough yet) and I expect to learn more than I know today as I grow (2 Pet 3:18). My understanding is not a static thing. I also will not follow a lesser gift, but I am looking for a greater understanding.
Bro. Dyal also says "If this group of men and Assemblies go in the direction espoused by this man and his fellow travellers I will cease to believe it to be the body of Christ, lose all confidence in it having any vision of what God is doing in the earth today, and cease to gather with it with any regularity." [1] I say that God has placed me in this group of people, and if any one of them veers away, I will continue to love them and try to encourage them to correct any issues that need correcting. I will not abandon the people God put me among merely because I disagree with them.
I know that what I am writing is not going to change the way that some people think, I will not delude myself into thinking that I can do anything more than I can do. However, I am a person that tries to make sure that what I am being taught is correct (I Thess 5:21) So being driven by that and taking my method from John 8:7, I now welcome anyone reading this who is now sinless, post the first reply.
Reference:
[1] http://paulbdyal.blogspot.com/2009/10/root-of-problem-is.html
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Well I don't claim to be sinless but I'd like to comment any way. I do think the focus should be first on Christ, second on others. Our relationship with Christ is primary but our relationship with others also is important too. So much so that it can effect our relationship with Christ in a positive or negative way. I think that's the question of the day. At what point do we place too much emphasis on our relationship with others that it becomes improper in comparision to our relationship with Christ? We should recognize that we can't have a "Jesus and me got our own thing going, we've got it all worked out" approach, but that our relationships with others play a crucial role. But we should also recognize that this can be out of balance too. Leaning on others more than the ONE. There's a middle of the road between these two pitfalls, Lord help us find it and walk therein.
ReplyDeleteBy the way I hope this is not taken as a stone being cast. That's not my intent.
@ adisciplesjourney: I'm sorry if I implied that only sinless people could comment on this post. That was not my intention. Instead, I was challenging one sinless person to identify themselves in my comments. I didn't mean to actually lock the comments up in the way that it seems I did. Please, feel free to comment, I won't think you are declaring yourself perfect unless you declare yourself perfect. ;)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, let me say I'm glad Dyal posted a reference to your blog. I've enjoyed reading it and am glad you are sharing. I can't say I agree with everything but I sure find it uplifting and edifying.
ReplyDeleteAs a side note: humor is to state the obvious that isn't immediately obvious. Your observations about Dyal's blog are very insightful.
Anytime God calls or sends someone (say Abraham) or gives something of great value to someone (collectively or individually) they have two options: Turn outward or turn inward. Your focus reveals which of the two you are doing.
Thanks again for sharing.